Animals at Waterfall restaurant.

Hi All

I have purposely kept away from this rather touchy topic, and left it to the people who have more experience than I ever will have in this matter.

BUT!!!

"FULL RESPECT":- " to you Milesy"

I too hate any form of cruelty and especialy, "avoidable neglect",

Nashy you have hit it in one mate!

Vote with your wallet and feet,
Short term, sorry to say, unknown problem for the present animals
but what will happen to them in winter?? they have, sadly, no future!

Long term, "problem solved" when the bar has no income!!
and has no reason to keep animals

Also,Sungirl,

Could you give me the location of this ""FARM" on the "outskirts of Icmeler" where these animals go to be,"looked after" over winter, becouse I spend some time in Icmeler myself in Jan/Feb and I can visit this "FARM" and then confirm what you say!!

Go for it Milesy, with at least my full blessing and respect

Regards Peli

[Milesy]

Thanks for some support

I am also slightly pained by the fact that all the animals I seen were young animals - no more than 6/8 months old. I seen no adult rabbits and guinea pigs anywhere which begs the question of where last years animals are now? Is it one of these "farms" that your parents told you your dead dog went to when you were young?

I know Im going to get ear-ache over this, Milesy
But these poor little thing are "edible" and there are enough, hungrey lads with no fixed abode wandering around over winter!
Which is probably the reason for there not being any older animals.
"Sorry" to have to say this, but it is a serious thought !!
Peli

[Zog]

As you all know, the police are patrolling around all the restaurants. I'm sure they've looked at the animals, wouldn't be human not to, and if they saw a problem I'm sure something would have been done.
aren't we making the mistake here of trying to impose British values on anther countrys people and culture ?

[chris jo and cory]

it wasnt my intention to flame anyone.........i just wondered if this was the right place for such an emotive topic?
im 150% behind anyone who tries to stop any form of cruelty or neglect to animals..........but i think your desicion to persue the matter through an independant organisation is the way to go.
posting on here could have some effect...the owner could take notice and if needed,provide more adequate care for the animals....but it could also backfire in that he may get fed up with holidaymakers complaining and get rid of the animals altogether......
i thought peli made a valid point..............
what we see as cuddly furry animals..........others see as a vital part of the food chain.......
we shouldnt try to impose our values on other cultures.........
i come on here to read about good things..............ok.bad things will happen in icmeler.........but i dont want to spend my holidays worrying about them..........i will visit the waterfall............always do when im over..........i will look at the animals...and if i see a problem i will have a word............
the best thing we can do as a group is to do as nashy says...........vote with your feet if your unhappy........but i suggest letting the owner know politly why your not eating there!

[Milesy]

it wasnt my intention to flame anyone.........i just wondered if this was the right place for such an emotive topic?
im 150% behind anyone who tries to stop any form of cruelty or neglect to animals..........but i think your desicion to persue the matter through an independant organisation is the way to go.
posting on here could have some effect...the owner could take notice and if needed,provide more adequate care for the animals....but it could also backfire in that he may get fed up with holidaymakers complaining and get rid of the animals altogether......
i thought peli made a valid point..............
what we see as cuddly furry animals..........others see as a vital part of the food chain.......
we shouldnt try to impose our values on other cultures.........
i come on here to read about good things..............ok.bad things will happen in icmeler.........but i dont want to spend my holidays worrying about them..........i will visit the waterfall............always do when im over..........i will look at the animals...and if i see a problem i will have a word............
the best thing we can do as a group is to do as nashy says...........vote with your feet if your unhappy........but i suggest letting the owner know politly why your not eating there!

Thanks. In regards to other cultures. Turkey wants to modernise itself and become a fully fledged member of the EU. In doing this a lot of harmonisation needs to occur in many area, and animal rights needs to be one of them. By all means if you want to eat animals go ahead, but mistreating them in the process is not acceptable though.

Still waiting for location of the "FARM"!!!
Peli

[reesy1959]

I am not going to get into the debate of whether this is the right place or the wrong place to discuss the welfare of these animals.

I didnt go to the Waterfall the last time I was in Icmeler, but I will go there when I return in October, just to see the animals in question. I too will feed them and will make my feelings known to the Management if they look to be undernourished and I certainly wont be eating there if this is the case.

Good luck with your complaint to SED and lets hope the animals in question can be looked after in the way that they should be.

As you all know, the police are patrolling around all the restaurants. I'm sure they've looked at the animals, wouldn't be human not to, and if they saw a problem I'm sure something would have been done.
aren't we making the mistake here of trying to impose British values on anther countrys people and culture ?

Thats what I meant in my previous post Zog. It's not part of the EU so we can't impose british laws and values onto other countries. If the Turkish authorities thought it was a problem then something would of been done by now. So makeing a complaint to whoever is simply a waste of time.

Steve

[Milesy]

Thats what I meant in my previous post Zog. It's not part of the EU so we can't impose british laws and values onto other countries. If the Turkish authorities thought it was a problem then something would of been done by now. So makeing a complaint to whoever is simply a waste of time.

Steve

Not part of the EU (YET). Lets not pretend that Turkey is not a modern country, and is trying to modernise itself more because it clearly is trying to do these things if you keep in touch with world politics and news. Turkey is not a backwater country so there is no excuse from a cultural view point.

Also if we are looking at a cultural point of view from a religious point of view, and with Turkey being a Islamic country then the Qur'an forbids animal cruetly, and specifically identifies that it is a sin to not provide for an animal, or allow it to provide for itself. So Islam as well as Christianity is also pretty clear on the matter.

You think a few sleepy town police men are really interested in the welfare of a couple of rabbits and guinea pigs? British Police probably would only respond to such matters on the receipt of a report as well, and would not usually waste time with something they either dont have time for, or dont know about.

I have already been speaking with SED in Turkey and they are quite far from not caring about the matter and I have already provided all the details to them and answered various questions by them, so it just shows that there are organisations in Turkey who DO care.

[juju]

Hi Milesy and thanks for bringing this to our attention.I posted on the "monkey"thread and also spoke to the guy who had it outside on the grass in a cage at dreamboys.I did see the animals at waterfall last year and I hate to see any animals in a place where they can be "mauled " by children let alone neglected.I did see some birds and hens on the grass outside a cafe way up the other side of the bay on the road to Marmaris which looked in bad condition.I didnt go in there and didnt speak to anyone although I probably should.People and animals have rights wherever in the world they are and I have been told much of my life that I am wasting my time by speaking out against things.....also in England.But I will continue to speak out against anything I think is injustice whether to people or animals.

Thats what I meant in my previous post Zog. It's not part of the EU so we can't impose british laws and values onto other countries. If the Turkish authorities thought it was a problem then something would of been done by now. So makeing a complaint to whoever is simply a waste of time.

Steve

Not part of the EU (YET). Lets not pretend that Turkey is not a modern country, and is trying to modernise itself more because it clearly is trying to do these things if you keep in touch with world politics and news. Turkey is not a backwater country so there is no excuse from a cultural view point.

Also if we are looking at a cultural point of view from a religious point of view, and with Turkey being a Islamic country then the Qur'an forbids animal cruetly, and specifically identifies that it is a sin to not provide for an animal, or allow it to provide for itself. So Islam as well as Christianity is also pretty clear on the matter.

You think a few sleepy town police men are really interested in the welfare of a couple of rabbits and guinea pigs? British Police probably would only respond to such matters on the receipt of a report as well, and would not usually waste time with something they either dont have time for, or dont know about.

I have already been speaking with SED in Turkey and they are quite far from not caring about the matter and I have already provided all the details to them and answered various questions by them, so it just shows that there are organisations in Turkey who DO care.

Yes I am aware of world politics, and let me tell you Turkey is a long long way from becoming part of the EU.

Steve

Still Waiting !!!
For the location of "The Farm", on the "outskirts of Icmeler".
where the little animals are "Looked After" over winter !!!!
Peli

Last edited by peli on 25 Aug 2008 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

[Zog]

Still Waiting !!!
For the location of "The Farm",
where the little animals are "Looked After" over winter !!!!
Peli

That would be the same kind of place as the bull farm in Spain, the fox and badger farm in England, and the deer and wild boar farm in Germany

[cockneyjambo]

Milesy i notice that you have asked for people to feed the rabbits lettuce. Lettue is actually poisenous to rabbits so i strongly recommened that lettuce is not given to them.
I went to the Waterfall and never once thought that the animals were being mistreated.

I have now seen the photo's of these animals and I can confirm they ARE in need of help and attention.

Just wondering!!
Not in the know regarding rabbit food
If letuce is piosonous to rabbits,how come tens of thousands of pet rabbits arnt dieing every week??? in UK
Every pet rabbit I have ever heard about has been given lettuce!!
Peli

[cockneyjambo]

Well all i know is in every rabbit book i own it says not to feed rabbits lettuce

[Milesy]

Lettuce is not "poisonous" to Rabbits. You are advised not to feed rabbits Iceberg Lettuce because it contains no nutritional value (it is mostly made up of water cells) hence a rabbit being fed only Iceberg Lettuce will pretty much starve. It is not poisonous though, and indeed a rabbits will enjoy it, and in such a hot place like Turkey will probably actually benefit from the water anyway as the water dish was always empty. For nutritional value other leaf lettuces are fine as they will actually sustain the rabbit. I should have been a little more clearer and for that I apologise, but you are incorrect, and even many books are not clear on the matter either out of ignorance, or maybe because it is easier than explaining the details between lettuces which could result in them being held liable for someone feeding the wrong type of lettuce.

Chris

Last edited by Milesy on 25 Aug 2008 15:13, edited 1 time in total.

RE:- my previous post
Ive had a think, is it something on the same lines of,milk is bad for hedgehogs, building up toxins etc!
I am genuinly surprised if this is the case!!
how many rabbits get given lettice??
Peli